Abortion Roundup
Since, for recordkeeping purposes, the comments on our discussions are closed each week on Friday, I wanted to put a new post up so that those who wanted to could continue our discussion of abortion.
I have mixed feelings about entering into this conversation myself. On the one hand, I am extremely aware that my role as the instructor of the course colors how y’all will read anything I say. I don’t want to give anyone the impression that your personal views on abortion (or any other topic) will have any effect on your grades. To show favoritism toward students whose ideologies are similar to mine would be deeply unethical, and I’m constantly on guard against this.
More importantly, we all need to keep in mind that this is not an abstract discussion. It is likely there are people in this course who have had abortions, and it is virtually certain there are those whose lives have been touched in some way by abortion. Whatever your views on abortion, please keep in mind that these people need our support and compassion, not our condemnation. If you know people who’ve had abortions, you may want to point them to Help After Abortion, Americans On Call, or the blog After Abortion.
On the other hand, this is a course that is meant to help you develop critical thinking skills, and in my experience, too few people (on either side of the discussion) really exert much mental effort examining the issue of abortion. We spend a lot of time slinging slogans at one another and not so much time really thinking critically about the issues involved.
There are solid logical and scientific arguments (see here or here or here) for believing that human life (or personhood, if you prefer that term) begins at conception. Not at implantation, not at some arbitrary week during pregnancy, but from the moment of conception. If we accept that, then, we can rephrase the abortion question this way: When it is acceptable to kill a person?
Is it okay to kill a baby to safeguard his or her mother's health? Is it okay to kill a baby because he or she may face difficult economic circumstances in life? Is it okay to kill a baby so that his or her mother can stay in school?
Again, these questions are not meant to attack anyone--real or theoretical. We all make mistakes, but we can't learn from them unless we recognize that they're mistakes. We must see that abortion is not a real solution to anything.
To take just one case that came up in the comments on earlier posts, what about cases of rape? Rape is an awful thing, likely the worst thing that someone can do to someone else. And it can result in pregnancy. And that can seem crippling to the woman. But here’s the thing: the baby is innocent, and killing that baby does not undo the terrible violation of rape. Women who have survived rape need our support; they do not need another violation (to use Matthewes-Green’s language).
As I said, you're invited to continue this discussion in the comments of this post. Please keep in mind that civility, not name-calling or accusations, is required in this conversation especially.
24 comments:
I realize that i have already created a blog post on the subject but I do not wish to be misunderstood. I do not support abortion and I do not think it should take place, but I also do not think the people who have had the procedure are bad people. I just stated my opinion about the subject of abortion, not about those who have had abortions. I apologize if I have offended anyone in my previous blog post; it was not my intention.
I think there are many conditions to how abortions are looked at. On the one hand, I don't think everyone should run around having an abortion...but on the other, I think women should have the option...but for serious reasons.
If the child is going to be living a life not worth living, is it fair to make them go through that? I don't mean someone with Down's or autism...for they are still functional for the most part. I mean people who are born missing limbs, children who have deformed lungs and spend all their lives on ventilators. My mother and my aunt both work in Labour and Delivery at Baptist Hospital in Columbia...and just recently they had a girl come in, gave birth and had a child without lungs, because the mother's water had broke entirely too early, effectively dooming the child.
And in cases of rape...it's a deep psychological problem to carry a child that's the product of rape...you could put it up for adoption, but it may be too traumatic even for the mother to carry the child full term.
I seriously think abortions should be legalised and controlled. So at the very least women aren't running around in dark alleys having coat-hanger abortions.
Although I'm not part of this class, I'm a friend of Tyler's and I found this side a little short of support, so here goes. I'm pro-choice not because I consent to the murder of babies, or anything else, for that matter, but because I believe that people have a right to choose how they live their own lives. There isn't a sense of ownership between parent and child, but one of love and duty; when a child is going to be born without love from it's parents, what kind of life will it lead? Most children have a sense of belongingness when they grow up, but when a child spends most of it's formative years waiting to be 'chosen,' does it not start to feel inferior, unwanted, and unloved? Since no perfect solution exists for such a difficult subject, people must learn to make their own choices and allow others to do the same.
I still believe that a woman in the end has control over her body and can only decide if it is right for her to bring a child into the world. I feel like two people have to sit down and decide if bringing a child into the world under certain conditions is selfish, understandable, respectable, or love.
The question is not "Should a woman have the right to choose to dispose of an unwanted intrusion into her life?" but "Does a woman have the right to choose death to another person, however small and undeveloped it may be?"
In many states, if not all, someone can be charged with murder if they attack a pregnant woman resulting in the death of her unborn child. However, in those same states, a woman can choose to kill her baby just because it is "unplanned" and "unwanted" or will change her life dramatically.
I put forth this statement: If someone is 'mature' enough to have sex, then they are 'mature' enough to either have the baby they helped to create or give the baby to someone who is capable of loving it.
And in the case of rape, I know that it is a hard thing to go through, but why take away the life of an innocent child? Is not the knowledge of taking the life of a child just as psycologically traumatizing, if not more?
Kyle, all life is worth living. People with missing limbs find ways to live from day to day. Do you think that people who come back from wars missing limbs think that life is not worth living? They are thankful to have made it out alive.
What kind of world are we living in when the saftey of the womb has become a warzone? Children are lucky or blessed to get out alive.
I thank God everyday that I survived.
kyle i agree with Jordan on this one. Who is to say that another persons life is not worth living. You gave examples of children with health problems. I have a 14 month old daughter Rosemary Grace. And I can say from personal experince that no matter what health problems she might have incurred I would have NEVER wanted her disposed of b/c her life might suck. I would have done every procedure known to man to help her have a good life.
Back to your life is not worth living views my grandmother has maybe four months to live should we take her out back and shoot her since she has extremely painful cancer in 90% of her body.
I do not believe in abortions in any circumstance, not to affend anyone who does choose the pro-life position. Even though I share the same view as you, Jordan, I have never thought of "the womb [becoming] a warzone", but in all actuality it is a very revelant comment.
I personally cannot understand how a person can have the abortion procedure done. I know many people, including myself, that have had unplanned pregnancies, but truly it's not the end of the world. Yes, it is hard at times, but killing an innocent child isn't the answer to anything. It only forms another problem- living a regretful life.
Secondly, Riv, I agree with your comment about your grandmother. My grandmother also had cancer, which truly is a horrible thing to live through. You are right, you can't just put them to sleep like an animal or "take [them] out back and shoot [them]". This same concept applies to an unborn developing child.
In fact, my friend, Jamie Jones and I, were discussing abortions the other day because she has the same class, but at a different time and we compared the developing baby to a developing flower. If you take the flower out of the dirt it will die before it even gets finished developing. Just because it isn't completely matured it is still a flower, just as the undeveloped baby is still a human being. Because it is a human I feel it is unjust to terminate it's life when it hasn't even been given a chance to live.
I realize that I have already commented on this blog but I want to make sure that I apologize if I offended anyone.
I do not believe in abortions. I feel that if a woman is vitimmized she should be able to make her own decision whether or not to keep her baby.
I agree and disagree with Jordan. If you are mature enough to lie down with someone to conceive a child, you should be mature and responsible enough to take care of it. Even if you think you can't do it by yourself, I'm pretty sure there are family members and friends that would be glad to help take care of the baby.
With the case of rape, I disagree. Being raped is a very traumatizing, and scary experience. A woman feels violated and degraded. Ending up pregnant from the result of rape is also very scary. You have the thought of your child going through the same thing thing you went through. Psychologically, a woman is not capable of taking care of a child with those horrible thoughts of her rape in her head. It will haunt her for as long as she can remember. Terminating a pregnancy as a result of that is acceptable in my opinion.
I was born with a hereditary illness. It is something that if I ever have children (and God willing I will one day) they will almost certainly inherit as well. This illness has wreaked havoc on my daily life for as long as I can remember. A couple of years ago I asked my mother this question, "If the technology available today was available back then would she still given birth to me?" She just sat there very quietly for a minute. Then she turned to me and asked this question. “Given your condition, has your life ever been so hard that you wish you were not here today?” In that moment I knew the answer. No. Sure my life has not been easy but if it had been I would not be as strong as I am today. Therefore, the question of aborting a child because they would have a disease, disorder or an illness does not make sense to me. That child can still lead a fulfilling life believe me. I would know.
Felicia, I never said that rape is not traumatizing. I have an idea of how traumatizing rape can be, my mother having gone through it and having gone through it mentally myself.
In cases like rape, women need to go to therapy to learn to deal with those emotions. And then if she is not capable of taking care of the child, that is when she should give the baby up for adoption.
After an experience like rape, she would not be emotionally compatent enough to make the decision to abort. That is why she should go through therapy first so she can come to terms with her emotions and be able to rationally think things through.
I personally don't support abortion but like it was said in the post, everyone has a different sitution and everyone is their own person so if that's what they decide to do then it's their decision.
I use to agree with abortion, it's your baby, your body, do what you like was the kind of attitude i use to have. Now, that i have a nephew and im older i think differently. Aborting a baby is a very painful thing to do, im sure. I use to think if a girl was too young, hadn't finish high school and had no job then having a baby would only add to the challenges one faces in life, already. Children with disabilites are so sad. It's only nature to want to birth a healthy baby and finding out your baby isnt heathly is devasting. Having a baby with severe disabilites is kind of selfish to me, because that child will endure so much unnecessary pain. Im not viewing disable children and "regular" children differently I'm just stating that disable children have more problems to endure. Abortion either way, no one really "wins" its just a lose-lose situation.
Abortion of a disable child is controversial. I agree with Kyle when she says women should have that option. This is a hard subject beacuse it can offend someone if your not careful, but I'm pro-choice. If a mother can live with the thought of aborting the baby then thats her choice. I do not think I could ever do it, but I'm not going to sit here and tell people that they shouldn't have an abortion. I also Agree with what tylers friend said about whether its better to abort a child or let it be raised without love or being wanted. Sure theirs adoption, but sometimes that doesn't work out for the child. I think everyone should live their lives the way they want. If they abort, they will have their own emotional baggage to carry.
Jordan, I also have an idea of how traumatizing rape can be. I would rather not go into details, but it is a very touchy subject for me. It is humiliating trying to go to therapy and talk to someone else after someone has violated your personal space and degraded your womanhood.
I do agree that a woman should consider therapy, but sometimes after facing something as traumatizing as rape, it is hard to face reality, and any kind of therapist.
I agree with you Brandon. That goes back the point of birth-control. If many females would take the responsibility to us that option we wouldn't really be worried about abortion because they can be prevented. However, if pregancy occured from a traumatic event then maybe some psychological help maybe need to help that person determine what they would like to do.
I think that abortion should not be supported in any way shape or form but the person needs all the support that they can get. It is hard enough to go through the procedure so dont condemn the person condemn the action. Children with disabilities are more self actualized that most of society today I believe. If we treated them just like everyone else and didn't hold it against them for what they have this would not be an issue at all. What is normal? They should not be aborted because they are human beings also. Aborting children with Down syndrome is like aborting a baby because they have a speech impediment. It is not right no matter what anyone says.
Abortion is a very complicated thing. As for a human life, it is a very complicated thing as well. If a person doesn't want a child, then they don't have sex. That is a very simple thing.
I personally disagree with abortions. I do agree that people have different reasons to get abortions but i don't agree with people who go out and get pregnant knowing before hand they will get an abortion.
I agree with Bettina H, it is never ok to kill. Who gave these mothers the right to end their child’s life because it will be hard on them and the child will have many obstacles to over come. If that is the criteria for authorizing an abortion then we would all have to die. People face problems everyday that are hard but just because we are having a hard time doesn’t mean that we are better off dead.
Technology is great thing. We use it to benefit us now and in the future. We should not take advantage of technology, nor take it for granted. However, people in our society are taken advantage of technology and are only causing more suffering. We should not rely on abortion to make up from our mistakes; we should only turn to it in extreme circumstances.
I think that every child needs to be born into this world, even if they are disabled. The child should at least have an opportunity to see the world even if they dont understand whats going on around them. There are many institutions in America where children with disablities can be place. There the administrators or officials in charge will help make them feel that comfortable and not left out.
I feel that children with disabilities should be allowed to have the same freedoms that ordinary children have. Yes, they are going to have a disability, but that is no reason not to love that child. I have a sister who is austic. If my dad and his wife had decided to abort her, then she would not be here. A big part of my life would be missing. She brings so much joy to the family. It would be hard to imagine that she would have been an aborted baby. I couldn't picture life without her.
I don't agree that abortions are the right thing to do, but in some cases the best thing to do would be to have an abortion. I agree with Kyle that women should chose whether or not they want to have an abortion. In some cases it is not worth having a child and not being able to feed and nurture it.
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